Oral history interview with Ray Prochnow [with transcript], September 21, 1976.

              FLAGSTAFF PUBLIC LIBRARY ORAL HISTORY PROJECT
Ray Prochnow
Interview number NAU.OH.28.76


Ray Prochnow, whose mother and father came to Flagstaff in the late 1890’s. Interview conducted by Kristine Prennace on September 21, 1976. Transcribed by Jardee Transcription. 

Outline of Subjects Covered in a Taped Interview 
Tape 1 Side 1 
When and where born 
Flagstaff, 1900 
Parents 
Charles Prochnow, Berlin, Germany 
Elizabeth Burrus, France 
Brothers and sisters 
Marriage and family 
First wife, Anita Gyllot, Louisiana 
Second wife, Marie Hart, Jerome, Arizona 
O.L. Hart’s daughter 
Children 
Father’s work 
A.L. & T., 1898 
Why stopped in Flagstaff 
Flagstaff Lumber Company 
Commercial hotel 
Family residences 
Schooling 
St. Anthony’s 
St. Mary’s College, Oakland, California 
Jobs held 
First National Bank 
World War I 
Box factory 
Babbitts 
City Hall 
Courthouse 
Pollock and Zollahoff 
Prepared tax rolls 
(Marie Prochnow’s father, O.L. Hart) 
Public accountant 
Selective Service Board 
Navajo Code Talkers 
Board members 
Babbitt Brothers until retirement 
Going through picture albums 
Oldest house still standing in Flagstaff, Dr. Brannen 
Front Street 
Sandy Donahue 
Other personalities in town 
Bosman 
National Billiards Champion 
Light plant 
Boarding house on S. Milton Rd. 
Southside described 
Ethnic groups 
Pictures of Nativity Church 
Famous personalities 
Zane Grey 
Jimmie Swenerton 
Rudolph Valentino 
Theodore Roosevelt
Tape 1 Side 2 
Famous personalities (continued) 
Franklin Roosevelt 
Governor Hunt 
Monte Vista Hotel – effect on Commercial Hotel’s business 
Social life of community 
Army and Navy Club 
Changed to American Legion 
Other social positions held 
Dances at NAU 
Marler Hall 
O.L. Hart 
First National Guard unit 
Burrus family 
First county tax roll 
What brought people into Flagstaff 
Lumber 
Cattle and sheep 
University 
St. Anthony’s school 
Doyle family 
Pictures in album 
Ethnic groups 
Japanese 
Chinese 
Types of houses 
Mrs. Heiser 
Flagstaff Gun Club 
Cemeteries

This is an interview with Mr. Ray Prochnow, whose mother and father came to Flagstaff in the late 1890s. His father owned a commercial hotel. The interview is being conducted on September 21, 1976, at Mr. Prochnow's home, located at 10436 Camelot Circle in Sun City, Arizona, by Kristine Prennance, representing the Flagstaff City-Coconino County Public Library. 

KRISTINE PRENNANCE: Mr. Prochnow, when and where were you born? 

RAY PROCHNOW: I was born in Flagstaff, Arizona, on August 7, 1900. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Who were your parents? 

RAY PROCHNOW: My dad's name was Charles Prochnow; mother, Elizabeth Burrus Prochnow. My dad was born September 9, 1867, in Berlin. Mother was born November 28, 1878, in Alsace-Lorraine. They were married in Flagstaff on June 14, 1899. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: When did your father and mother come to Flagstaff? 

RAY PROCHNOW: They came to Flagstaff in 1897. (aside about tape recorder) 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, that was when your father came? 

RAY PROCHNOW: When Father came. Mother came just a few years afterwards, maybe a year afterwards, and she came over with one of her brothers from Alsace. She was a domestic for the McGonigles, who were part owners of the Arizona Lumber and Timber Company. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, I think we can probably skip over your brothers and sisters, because we've got that. 

RAY PROCHNOW: There's twelve of us. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: You're the oldest, right? 

RAY PROCHNOW: I'm the oldest of twelve children. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, why don't I go ahead and ask who you married, and tell me about your.... 

RAY PROCHNOW: You mean when I was married? (aside about tape recorder) I lost Anita [Guillot], who I married in 1924. She passed away about six years ago. I'm now married to Marie Hart, who was born in Jerome. She's the daughter of Les Hart, an old-time cattleman around Flagstaff, who originally came out and settled in Oak Creek in 1886, at the place which is now owned by George Babbitt of Troutdale - who's still there. Then she has one brother who was born in Camp Verde, who's passed away. And her other brothers and sisters were all born in Flagstaff. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, your first wife, what was her maiden name? 

RAY PROCHNOW: G-U-I-L-L-O-T, Anita Guillot. She was from Louisiana, came out with the lumber company that bought the Flagstaff Lumber Company. Marie and I have one son. We have five grandchildren and five great-grandchildren. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: You have a pretty big family! (laughter) 

RAY PROCHNOW: Marie retired from the Internal Revenue Service after thirty-five years' employment as chief of accounts. We are now living in Sun City, and have been for the last four-and-a-half years. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay. I want to go back and ask a little bit more about your parents. What type of work did your father do? 

RAY PROCHNOW: My father was a mechanical engineer for the Arizona Lumber and Timber Company, first. He went to work for them in 1898, about the time he came to Flagstaff. He was on his way through Flagstaff, going to the coast, and stopped off. The mill had had a fire, and they were trying to repair some of the machinery, and he and his broken German accent, would tell 'em Mr. McGonigle, "I can fix up." So Mr. McGonigle looked at him and said, "Well, my, we'd better keep that kid around here, see what he can do." And he fixed it! Well, they had no room for him on the payroll, but they kept him around for a while. Then from there on he started in as a master mechanic. He mostly had charge of these boiler rooms in the mill. And then about 1911, he left and came over and joined one of the work camps and McGonigles in starting the Flagstaff Lumber Company, which they called the "Flimflam." He started that and worked there until about - I forget exactly what year it was, probably 1916, when he bought the Commercial Hotel and ran that until the time of the Depression in the thirties, and lost it. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay. Now, you started to mention something about your house. It's still standing, isn't it? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, now, the house that I was born in was up in Milton - Mill Town - just about where Big Bob's is now. (lots of jostling of microphone, making it difficult to hear) That's where Big Bob's [is], on Monroe. Here's the office building of the Arizona Lumber and Timber Company. Then the house that.... There was three of us. Well, from Dick on down, they were all born in this house. There's been only two houses that my dad and mother lived in. I, Mary, Buster, and Charlie were born in Milton. Cecelia was born in Alsace-Lorraine. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, now, she was older than you? 

RAY PROCHNOW: No, she's younger. Cecelia was born in Alsace-Lorraine when we went over there to visit my mother's mother. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, yeah, because your parents moved over here. (laughter) I wasn't thinking. Ah-ha! 

RAY PROCHNOW: This is a picture of my grandmother, and that was me, Mary, and Buster, and that's Cecelia that was born in Alsace-Lorraine. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I see. 

RAY PROCHNOW: That's my mother and my grandmother. Well, then let's keep going. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, it's okay. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, let's see, what else? The house is still standing, yes. Cecelia was born when Mother, I, Mary, and Buster went to Alsace-Lorraine, and I was about six years old. I can well remember some of the old places in Alsace, and could probably find it today if I had to go back and get there. We were over there for over a year. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, I didn't know. Now, your father remained in Flagstaff? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Father stayed in Flagstaff all the time, yes. This was where Cecelia was born, in this house here. So that's.... And there's the kids at the house. Now, let's see. Here's a family reunion that we had later on. You've probably seen all those pictures of the family reunion. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, I saw them just recently. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Then let's see, what else would you like to have? 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay, do you remember ________. Did you go to school at Emerson? 

RAY PROCHNOW: I attended the St. Anthony's Academy in Flagstaff, and graduated from the eighth grade. I was the only boy, and there were five or six girls, I remember. Some that I remember are Louis Raykell, Elizabeth Hennessey, Clara Camel, and Virginia Feelin' [all phonetic spellings]. And upon graduating from St. Anthony's in Flagstaff, I attended St. Mary's College and graduated from the Department of Commerce in 1917. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, that's in Kansas? 

RAY PROCHNOW: St. Mary's College in Oakland, California. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, then you returned to Flagstaff when you graduated? 

RAY PROCHNOW: I returned to Flagstaff after I graduated from school, and immediately following that, within a year, I was employed by the First National Bank, when they first opened up in January 1918. I stayed there a very short time. I then enlisted in the Army and was stationed in Waco, Texas. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That was World War I? 

RAY PROCHNOW: World War I. I worked off and on different jobs in Flagstaff while I was going to school at St. Mary's, between the time I graduated from the eighth grade until the time I graduated for college. I worked for my uncle at the box factory at the lumber mill, on the nailer. And the late Felice Garcia's father - I mean, Felice [Connors?] father - was the boss operating on those cutoff saws. Mother didn't like me workin' on that, so I was moved to another job on the nailer. On the nailer, I was afraid of gettin' my fingers smashed all the time, so I moved into the printing place. And in the printing place, I got ink all over my clothes, so my mother made me quit. 

For a while I worked as an office boy for Babbitts' when Frank Handley [phonetic spelling], the son of Mother Handley of the normal school, was office manager. I worked at City Hall for a while with Alex Johnson and George Fleming [phonetic spellings]. I worked at the Courthouse and different offices whenever needed - sometimes for Mr. Beason [phonetic spelling], who was the assessor, Dan Francis in the supervisors' office. Most of these during my school vacations. 

I also worked for John Zollahoff at McNary, then called Coolidge. He was in charge of the sawmill, which was owned by Tom Pollock and his brother Bob. Having to batch [i.e., live as a bachelor, doing all his own cooking and laundry (Tr.)] all the time, I didn't like it, so I left there. So you can see I was kind of a shiftless sort of fellow (laughs) in my younger days. 

I worked for the Coconino County Board of Supervisors in preparing the tax rolls. Joe Cullom, Jim Kennedy from Williams, old Bob Thurston, Jim Walkup from various others during six or seven years that I helped prepare the tax rolls. 

Getting back to Marie's father for a minute. He was an old-time cattleman in Northern Arizona, as I mentioned, and at one time was associated with Babbitt Brothers, and the company which is now known as the Hart Cattle Company, that's still in existence. 

Well, then as time went on, I got out of the Army and so forth. I worked later on as a public accountant. The banks had merged at that time. They used to have a Citizens Bank and the Arizona Central Bank and the First National Bank. They merged, and I went into public accounting. In 1940, when the Selective Service was organized, I was employed as a clerk for the Coconino County Board, which was the largest in area, board in the United States. That was due to so many Indians, Hopis and Navajos, that we had. And my experiences with THAT is something I'm going to write a book on, because I have pictures galore of the long-haired Indians that were sent to the induction stations for examinations. Some couldn't speak English, and some could. Those that were accepted later had their hair cut, and I have a bunch of pictures of THEM. 

As you probably have heard, the Navajos had a battalion of their own men that were in the signal corps, and they could send signals to one another that the Japs could not decipher. __________ you probably have heard that. Well, then on that board was _______ Midgley, Earl Slaffort, Durwood McKinny, Charlie Proctor, Tom McCullum, and Fred Moore [phonetic spellings]. Durwood McKinney and Charlie Proctor and Fred Moore are still alive. 

I tried to enlist in World War II, but General Tupper [phonetic spelling] refused to release me, and so I stayed on and give up my - I had lost a lot in my accounting business, due to the fact that I had devoted so much time to the Selective Service. Well, upon the termination of Selective Service, Joe Babbitt and __________ Nelson approached me to go to work for Babbitts. After a short while, I decided in 1946 to accept. And I stayed with them until October 1967, at which time I retired. I was ________ in charge of the Flagstaff office, billing and so forth. And the department then was under the supervision of Paul Babbitt and Carter Jenkle [phonetic spelling]. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh. Uh-huh. (laughs) 

RAY PROCHNOW: During my time at Babbitts', I covered much of Northern Arizona, visiting the stores in Kingman, Williams, Grand Canyon, Winslow, Holbrook, Page, and a number of their trading posts on the reservation. 

Now, what else do you got in this? Now we can go to some of this.... Let me see where it is now. Oh, here. Here's some old-time pictures that Platt Cline had used, you know. I can identify where different people lived there. I don't know whether you want me to.... 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, that'd be fine. 

RAY PROCHNOW: I think if I were to pick the oldest house in Flagstaff, which __________, I would pick the house about a block away from where Andy Devine was born, an old brick house, which is over on - you go down Phoenix, and then go one block south. And that house was owned by Dr. P.J.Brannen. And Brannen was one of the original store owners in Flagstaff, where Joe's Place is now. 

I can recall before Prohibition. My dad had the saloon in the hotel. Harpers had a saloon. Sandy Donahue had a saloon. Dave Tate had a saloon. Going down on the side street towards where the Monte Vista Hotel is now, were two saloons: Rickle and Brooks [phonetic spelling] had one, and I used to watch the fish in the glass containers in the windows as I went by. And then the Curio [phonetic spelling] Saloon. I have a picture of the old Curio Saloon. Well, let's see. There's the old Curio Saloon right there on the alley, see, right there. Here's the old Elks Hall which is at present a drug store. Here's a picture of Finley's Store, picture of the theater that caved in. And Babbitts' livery stable that caved in. In Babbitts' livery stable I think was - it might have been an uncle or some relative of Carter Jenkle's, Jim Roscoe, who was running it. Kind of see if Carter remembers some of this. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, okay. Roscoe? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah, Jim Roscoe. These are just different pictures that I had later on, pictures of the peaks. Now, what else? 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Maybe you could tell me - you mentioned Sandy Donahue. Do you remember him? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yes, I know Sandy Donahue real well. Well, I remember him. Sandy Donahue owned the house that Sam Finley lived in. And next to Sam Finley is where the Harts built a home, Maurice's dad and mother. On the other corner was.... Oh, I could write 'em all down if I had to. Anyway, I have some papers where Sandy Donahue sued Babbitts' to recover the Commercial Hotel. And then later on I have the papers that my dad bought the hotel from Babbitts'. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So Babbitts' was not the original owner? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Sandy Donahue was the original owner. And Sandy Donahue lost the hotel to the Babbitts for money that he had borrowed from them. Along with the hotel he lost a lot of property across the track on South San Francisco. He also lost his home. He lost some other property in Flagstaff. I could probably tell where it was from the description on the map, but I remember that. 

Sandy Donahue was still alive when I knew him, but I didn't know him too well. I was just a youngster running down by the Commercial Hotel about that time, and used to run by the saloons when I went to school. My dad had a restaurant in the Commercial Hotel which was run by a Negro couple, and at noontime, all of us kids used to come down there at lunch at the hotel, from school. Later on, the people opened up a restaurant in the basement of the Weatherford Hotel. I forget what organizations were there. And old Dad White had the pool hall upstairs. I played pool in there many a time. I remember Bill Conley [phonetic spelling], who was one of the Conley boys. I don't know whether __________. The Conley girl was working - her name is.... Oh, I've got ________. He's a trustee with the Elks right now. Her father, Casey Jones, ran a pool hall where Joe's Place is now. Where the Club 66 now is, there was two men by the name of Bosman and [Sharkey?] that ran the pool hall. And young Bosman used to sit up on the table when he was just a kid. His dad would sit him up there to keep him out of mischief, and he'd hit the balls around. He later became one of the national champions in billiards. He's still alive, and his record can be found in the billiard books, you know. I remember THEM. 

Well, let's see, who else? Oh, I remember a lot of 'em that go back there. I was quite ___________. I remember when the old light plant was up on top of the hill where one of the buildings is now at the college, and the old boardwalk that came down the road that's going to Lake Mary. I remember the old boarding house that was run by Mrs. Rau [phonetic spelling]. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Where was that located? 

RAY PROCHNOW: That was located on Lake Mary Road, just about in the area where.... When you take the bend going out to Lake Mary, it was just about where that new store, that Picnic Store or something is now. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, okay, I think I know. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah, right in there. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh. 

RAY PROCHNOW: And that's about.... Oh, I could keep on goin' forever with buildings. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah, you can recall where they were placed. Now, on the south side, what was over there? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, on the south side there's the Flagstaff Lumber Company, and there was Dr. Brannen's house, as I mentioned before, the place where Andy Devine was born. The Lindemanns lived on that side at one time. There was a Chinese laundry on the corner of Phoenix and the first street that goes south - I'm trying to remember that - right there on the corner. Across the street was Dave Lewis, who ran a livery stable for a long time. Lena Lewis, his daughter, was babysitter for my mother when I was born. And let's see, I guess that's about all in there, outside the mill. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Was it mostly Mexican people that lived in there? You've mentioned quite a few Anglo __________. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, there were quite a few Mexican people who lived over there, yes, but there were a lot of white people who lived over there about that time. McGonigle built that home. Later on, the Dolans house was over on that side. Oh, yeah, the old Nativity Church was over there. Nativity Church where Father Vabor [phonetic spelling] was pastor. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Were there ever any problems between the Mexican families and the white families? 

RAY PROCHNOW: None whatever. Never. Never. We had some of the best friends were Mexicans. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, I learned an interesting thing, that many of the people consider themselves Spanish, 'cause they came from Spain. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, there are still quite a few Mexicans in Flagstaff that could very well, give a.... Now here his Dorothy Jenkle - that's Carter's sister. And there's Carter. There I am ________ boy. There's the power skid, and there's - this boy's still alive and goes over to Guadalupe Church. If you can get ahold of him, he could give you __________. Castillo. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Do you remember what his first name was? 

RAY PROCHNOW: No, I do not recall. I thought I did have it, but I just, this was.... Father Vabor's first communion class, old Nativity Church. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: The girls in their little white dresses. 

RAY PROCHNOW: And this is an older picture. Catherine Rucker [phonetic spelling] is still alive - Catherine Kell [phonetic spelling], she's there. And my sister Mary, and this is a Colter girl, my brother Buster. That's one of the Jacob boys, and I don't know who that is. This was sent to him from someplace over there in California, 1913. (KP laughs) And this is a picture of Father Vabor. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Is that the old Nativity Church ______________? 

RAY PROCHNOW: That's the courtyard in there, yeah. No! this is the old Nativity Church, here. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah. Oh, okay. 

RAY PROCHNOW: And this is the one that was built where the present Nativity School is now. The sisters lived in the back part of it. Then later on, the church was built to the front part. I was an altar boy at the time the cornerstone was laid on that church, which was later torn down. I don't think there's many pictures like THAT one around any more. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: No, that's for sure. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Inside the grotto of St. Anthony's. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Was it like a little square then, with this courtyard in the middle? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, the church part was built up here, and the grotto was in the middle. And of course there was a courtyard. The sisters lived in - the classrooms were down below - sisters lived up on top. Then later on the church was built to this side, and the grotto stayed there for a long time. Bob Chambers may have some pictures of that, I don't know. 

There's Mary and I at the mill. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, my gosh! Oh, she was just tiny when she - you weren't very old either, about three or four. Do you remember Zane Grey at all? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yes, I recall Zane Grey when he stayed at Flagstaff. He used to buy his supplies when he went out on his expeditions to the White Mountains, near Payson country. He had a round with Babbitts' one time because a gal by the name of Agnes Rau was cashierin', and a dispute came up over a dollar. Zane Grey had a Japanese servant, and of course he trusted the servant, and when the dispute came up over the dollar, he never traded at Babbitts' anymore. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Was he a difficult person to get along with? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, I didn't know him that well. I would say he would have been, under the circumstances of what happened on this, yes. 

Then later on I remember, oh, Jimmie Swinnerton when he came here. He was a cartoonist. Bob Sambers remembers him. The last time I saw Jimmie, he came up to Babbitts' office, and wanted to know how he could get in touch with Ed Babbitt. And I looked at him, he had his pipe in his mouth, and I looked at him and I said, "Are you Jimmie Swinnerton?" He said, "Yes, I am." I said, "Well, I'm Charlie Prochnow's son. You used to stay at my dad's [hotel]." We had quite a conversation. Then I said, "Would you mind giving me your address so I could give it to Ed Babbitt so you can see him?" So he autographed a piece of paper his name, Jimmie Swinnerton. I went into the furniture department, told Mike Demur [phonetic spelling], "Mike, you know this fellow's signature?" And I brought up Jimmie Swinnerton’s picture and he says, "Yeah, where was he?" (KP laughs) And let's see, ____________. What else did you.... 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, do you remember any other famous people that stayed at the Commercial with your father? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Oh, well, the time that they took the Riders of the Purple Sage, why, Dustin and William Farnum stayed there. Rudolph Valentino stayed there at a later date. Gladys Brockwell [phonetic spelling], Richard Dix [phonetic spelling], and what's that girl's name? I never can think of it anymore - a leading lady was there. Took a lot of pictures there. And I wish I could find the old register for it. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, yes! 

RAY PROCHNOW: Boy, the names were in there. I could never find it anymore. And let's see.... Oh, yes, I remember when Teddy Roosevelt and his son Kermit were there. And that was about, as near as I can tell, 1914 or 1915. They were going out to the Snake Dance. And one of the Hibbens, brother to Stacy, whose name I have here for you, was in charge of at least fifty-two buggies and wagons that took this trip to the Snake Dance. It took us a whole week to go.... 

[END TAPE 1, SIDE 1, BEGIN TAPE 1, SIDE 2] 

RAY PROCHNOW: ... didn't know, top of the hill, before you go under the overpass. That's where the Mortzes [phonetic spelling] lived for a long time. Bernadette Mortz was born there, and Joe and Harold. Well, let's see.... Let's see who else was in Flagstaff. Oh, of course not in Flagstaff, but I met Franklin Roosevelt in Williams when he was up campaigning and staying at Mrs. Greenway's ranch. And Governor Hunt was the governor at that time. Governor Hunt stayed at the Commercial Hotel many a time. When the Monte Vista was built, he wouldn't move over and leave my dad not having him as a guest all the time. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: When the Monte Vista was built, did your father lose a lot of his business then? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yes, quite a bit of it, but not too much for a while, because the town was growing. But it was one of the main causes of the hotel's business going down. No parking space. Cars kept coming in then, you know, and it was hard to keep up the.... People naturally all wanted to go to the new Monte Vista Hotel, except one man by the name of Steinhart [phonetic spelling], who was a salesman for the Levi Company. He used to come in and he would tell my dad one day, "Charlie, you have the most automatic hotel in the world. You gotta do everything yourself." (chuckles) I have a picture of my dad's hotel in here, in the lobby. That's about all I got. Oh, let's see, what else was in Flagstaff? 

There was another man that came to Flagstaff that was running for president. I don't remember if it was Taft, or who it was, but I have a picture of a bunch ____________, but I've never been able to identify it. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Hm, uh-huh, __________. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Now, let's see.... 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, do you remember much about the social life of this community? 

RAY PROCHNOW: No, not too much. I was gone quite a bit of the time. We had quite a few, right after World War I, Oren Compton [phonetic spelling] and I and Dan Francis [phonetic spelling] and all the boys that returned from the war, organized what was called the Army and Navy Club. We gave dances in the old building now where Carlson and Court, the Masonic Temple down below. And that was probably one of the best deals at that one place, because everybody was coming to the veterans' dances. Then the American Legion was started. I'm not sure what year it was. I'm a charter member of THAT, and the name was changed from the Army and Navy Club to the American Legion. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh! 

RAY PROCHNOW: That's when I became active in the Legion, was commander twice. I'm also past state commander of the American Legion for the whole state. I was exalted ruler of the Elks Club; grand knight of the Knights of Columbus. (chuckles) 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, my gosh! 

RAY PROCHNOW: I have all those clippings that I still have of all that. And then quite a few dances were always held at the college auditorium, main building. And then I remember dancing with Marie at the old Marler Dance Hall in 1914 and 1915. See, they lived in Flagstaff and we went together for a while, even though he lost his job, and then he finally found a job again. (chuckles) 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Had a happy ending. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Oh, yeah. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now back to her for a second. Her father was [Les Hart?]. Now, is that the same as O.L. Hart? 

RAY PROCHNOW: O.L. Hart. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: That was the same person? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah. O.L. Hart. And he was one of the original members of the National Guard. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Hm, with Hochderffer. 

RAY PROCHNOW: And when the reunion was held in Flagstaff several years ago, there was a picture that appeared in paper with Mr. George Hoffnoffer [phonetic spelling], in which it mentioned all the different ones that were still alive, and had attended the reunion, with the exception of Les Hart, who was in Phoenix at the time. Marie didn't even know it, until I showed her that clipping. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh! 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, let's see.... Oh, I don't know what-all. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: You can remember a lot of people! It's hard to sort it out, and think of a few things. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, I knew so many of 'em, you know, all the time. All the sheepmen and the cattlemen in Flagstaff. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, the Burruses were a REAL old family then in Flagstaff. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, the first Burrus to come across, see, was my mother's brother, Joe. He went back and got her, and they came back to Arizona in about 1898 or so, or in there. Charlie Burrus owned the old - which is now called Pinewood - Munds Park. He owned that whole area in there, used to raise vegetables and all that stuff. Ernest Burrus located in Dony [phonetic spelling] Park, on a homestead. Jane Burrus became associate of - Jean Burrus came back with us from Alsace when he was about sixteen, went to work for my dad at the Arizona Lumber and Timber Company, and then later over to the Flagstaff Lumber Company, and then later on he was a partner of Mr. Dolans in the Dolans Box Factory in Phoenix. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, now THAT was the one. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah. One of his sons now is the attorney for the Valley National Bank, young Billy. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Are any of his family still alive? His is wife still alive? 

RAY PROCHNOW: He lost his first wife, and then he married another one. I don't remember what his wife's name was, well, Ruth.... You mean Gene Burrus' wife? She is still alive. Yeah, she's still alive. She's living down near Phoenix. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I wasn't sure about that. (inaudible) You were involved pretty much with county and city politics. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Not I. My brother, Bob, was more or less. I registered as a Republican, and stayed a Republican all the time. That's about all the extent. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Okay. It was the first county tax roll that you.... 

RAY PROCHNOW: [Not?] the first county tax roll, but it was the tax rolls that was prepared for the.... 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I didn't know. 

RAY PROCHNOW: We prepared the tax roll, set the tax rate, in the county. And I just merely worked for the board of supervisors at the time, and prepared the tax roll, along with the men from the Santa Fe Railroad, who used to go up there. And then I would, after the tax rate was set, I'd operate a Norm-Marshand [phonetic spelling] calculating machine by hand to write in the book, the tax amounts. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: How large was the county at that time, approximately? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Oh, I have no idea right now. I know it was very small. I remember one time when I lived in Milton when they said the town was getting awful big, and there was 1,500 people there. (laughter) 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: All of those people, if they'd only see it now! (laughs) Oh, my goodness. So that was when you were real young? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Oh, yeah. Still going to the sisters' school, the school operated by the Sisters of Loretto. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: What kept drawing the people in, then, in the early years? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, mostly lumbering, cattle and sheep raising. And gradually the college got larger. It first started out as a reform school, as you know. Then it was later on transferred over to a college. And of course there was just one building at the time, one main building. And then Gary [phonetic spelling] Hall and Taylor Hall for the boys, and then the dining room. Then later on, why, they built Camel Hall and Morton Hall. And then it grew from there on, and it really expanded. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, was that in the forties that it started growing so much more? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Oh, about then, yeah. Well, it's been growing right along. Most of it was still, after World War I, I have a picture of it somewhere. You've probably seen that big picture of the college, haven't you? 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: I think we've got one at NAU Library, I think. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Someone told me they didn't have it. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh! well, they may not. 

RAY PROCHNOW: I'll see if I can find it. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, that was when Dr. B.... (something drops) Whoops, sorry. Now, when you went on to high school, was it at the training, or did you get to go all the way through St. Anthony's? 

RAY PROCHNOW: I went all the way through St. Anthony's. I never attended the normal school which was the normal school then, no. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: So they had the equivalent of high school there at St. Anthony's? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yes, it was similar. When you graduated from them, you had an equivalent of about the second year of high school, called the ninth grade. There was only seven of us in the class. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Do you remember your parents mentioning if tuition was real high then? or how much they had to spend to send a child to school there? 

RAY PROCHNOW: I've got copies of what it cost from Dad. He used to get the bills. I don't know what it was then. I have it somewhere. Just where it is, I don't know. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Well, with twelve children, I imagine it was an expense. (laughs) 

RAY PROCHNOW: Well, and then sending us to Germany and all that. Of course, you've probably seen some of these pictures, that had Switzer and Black, Burg Doyle, Lee Doyle, Luther Hart [phonetic spellings]. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Now, Lee Doyle, was he Al Doyle's son? 

RAY PROCHNOW: No. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Was he related to Al Doyle? I don't know, people have said both names to me. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Al Doyle is the old gentleman, and Lee Doyle, I don't know - I think he's a brother, pretty sure he's a brother. See, they lived up where Babbitts' supermarket is now. Lee Doyle lived on the corner, Al Doyle in the middle, and then the Albernos [phonetic spelling] on the corner. That's the three places that were in there then. Then Charlie Schultz [phonetic spelling], the sheepman, across the way from there. See, these are real old pictures. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, yes! Oh, my gosh! Now, is this Nativity School or Brown School? 

RAY PROCHNOW: No, no, that's the School of Flagstaff in the late eighties [1880s]. ________ Ross, Judge Ross, ___________. The late Senator Ashurst is in the second row from the top, third row, Luther Hart. In the sixth row, Luther Hart is Marie's uncle. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, uh-huh. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah, just a young bunch of kids in there, you know. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Yeah. 

RAY PROCHNOW: And this is later on, when they were gettin' older see. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Uh-huh, so it's the same thing. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: My gosh, look at that. 

RAY PROCHNOW: I'm puttin' this out in a book form, and gonna write a little book on it some day. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, that's good. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Here's a picture that was taken in 1948, George Babbitt, the reunion of.... Well, it's a reunion in there. Most of these people over there with my dad. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: You resemble your father quite a bit. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah? Oh. And this was a saloon that my dad had with the Jap _________. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Uh-huh. So there were Japanese in town? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: How many were there, early? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Oh, there was not too many Japanese, but there were quite a number of Chinese. The Chinese owned the restaurants there for a while - Coconino Chop House was next to the Commercial Hotel. Then there were some Chinese. Judge Wu, who is still in Flagstaff, an accountant. He connects with Doug Jackson in the real estate business, I think it is - yeah, or something. His dad had a restaurant down on Santa Fe Avenue just below the local Woldhouse [phonetic spelling] Garage, across the street from the freight office depot. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Does he have a brother named Judge Wu also? 

RAY PROCHNOW: No, Judge is the only one that I knew. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: The accountant. There's one who owns the Plaza Pizza Parlor. 

RAY PROCHNOW: That's him. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: The same one? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah. Well, his father was the one that had the restaurant. These are just pictures of the bank that I worked in at the time. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, my! 

RAY PROCHNOW: Here's an old picture of Flagstaff with the old houses up in there. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, yeah. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Now, ____________. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: They were mostly then wood frame houses? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Oh, yeah. Yeah, there were very few of them. Well, they had some brick houses there, the old brick houses of Lee Doyle's, made out of sandstone from the quarry out east of Flagstaff, you know. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Do you remember Mrs. Heiser? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Hassen Heiser? 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: She was Charlie Heiser.... She had the ranch. 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah, she rode sidesaddle on horses all the time, and cussed like a Trojan. (KP laughs) She came in one time and bought some oats for her goats. She told the boss _______, "You know, those so-and-so goats won't eat those oats?!" I remember that very distinctly. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: (laughs) It must have been a shock. 

RAY PROCHNOW: She was quite a character. She was a real character. This is a picture where we built the old Flagstaff Gun Club, which is out there in the area where City Park is now. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh! Now, was that just to go out and practice shooting? 

RAY PROCHNOW: Yeah, had trap shooting out there. Here's kind of an odd picture which at that time Platt Cline brought it for me to put in there - a picture taken of a deer going across the front of [Old Main?]. Platt has it, the picture. He put it in the paper not long ago. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: My gosh. Just right down in town. Do you remember when they dug up the old cemetery around City Park, off City Park? 

RAY PROCHNOW: No, the old cemetery was out in the area where the stadium is now at the college. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh! 

RAY PROCHNOW: That's where the old one was. They moved the old G.A. and all that out of there. And that's where the gun club was for a long time. (

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Was that out there?) They moved THAT over there when they moved THAT over there. Yeah, see, that's all covered up now with the stadium. Yeah, used to hold turkey shoots out there in that open space. 

KRISTINE PRENNACE: Oh, my gosh! 

[END OF INTERVIEW]