Oral history interview with Maria Ascension Nunez [with transcript and Spanish Translation], July 24, 2007.

              Maria Ascension “Nennie” Nunez
Interviewed by Delia Ceballos Muñoz
July 24, 2007
Los Recuerdos del Barrio en Flagstaff
Flagstaff, Arizona

Muñoz:  Nennie, I’m going to have you go ahead and introduce yourself.
Nunez:  Me llamo?
[00:00:09]
Muñoz:  Yes, your name.
Nunez:  (Spanish) the last name?  Maria Ascencion Lopez Nunez.
Muñoz:  And your nickname is….
Nunez:  Nennie.
Muñoz:  And your address?
Nunez:  1420 Lomalai Lane.
Muñoz:  My name is Delia Muñoz, and today is July 24, 2007, and we’re doing the second part, finishing up from about a week ago or two weeks ago.  So we’re going to start with the churches at the time when you were growing up.  And your date of birth again was…?
Nunez:  July 13, 1933.
Muñoz:  So let’s talk about the churches.  Which church did you attend?
Nunez:  Nativity, because that was segregated, and they didn’t let us come in, because it was run by the Babbitts and the Nackards, and they had their name in there, and you weren’t allowed there.  So we ended up in Guadalupe.  [unclear] Guadalupe.  Guadalupe is the one we used to all go there, because it was built by my uncles (Spanish).
Muñoz:  And what tios, what uncles?
Nunez:  My Uncle Alfonso, my Uncle Pete, Victor.
Muñoz:  Lopez?
Nunez:  Uh-huh, todo Lopez.
Muñoz:  And who else do you remember?
Nunez:  (Spanish) his family.  They built the church, those mexicanitos, those vajitos.  And we used to go there because we were not allowed to go to Nativity.  But we made that Holy Communion with Father Alboy, and he was strict.  We had the catechism, the monjas they taught us, they were by ladies who lived by Dolan’s house, the yellow houses on this side.  That was like a convent for the monjas, the nuns.
[00:02:26]
Muñoz:  Where was that located?
Nunez:  You know the Dolans’ house, down in here?  You know, the hospital was there.  Right across this side.
Muñoz:  Okay, at the Mercy Hospital.
Nunez:  Uh-huh, uh-huh.  The houses were yellow, porque Pila lived by the cross.
Muñoz:  Pila?
Nunez:  Nunez [unclear], y Joe, (Spanish).  At that time (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Right, right.
Nunez:  (Spanish) monument, (Spanish) trees.  (Spanish)  The one that used to drive that horse, (Spanish) the Riodans, (Spanish) the Williams, (Spanish) Dolans.
Muñoz:  Okay, uh-huh.  And you said a policia?
Nunez:  Uh-huh.  He was the policeman that used to check everybody.  He had a white horse.
Muñoz:  You don’t remember the name of the policeman?  It might come back to you.  At that time, how many churches were there?
Nunez:  Just two.
Muñoz:  How about cemeteries?
[00:03:46]
Nunez:  Just one-the one Catholic, and they were just falling apart, the other one, the Citizens (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Right, right.  And where were they located?
Nunez:  Right on (Spanish) Target and all that-all those places (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Pantione [phonetic] cemeteries, okay.  Now talking about wakes and rosaries and funerals, how would you describe them when you were growing up?  What were the wakes like?
Nunez:  The wakes, they used to (Spanish) the bodies at their house, all night long.  And they partied all night long.
Muñoz:  Who would pray?
Nunez:  Las vajitas.  (laughter)
Muñoz:  So would there be a woman assigned to start the rosary?
Nunez:  No.  Never have.
Muñoz:  So who was the lady that led the rosary?
Nunez:  Whoever, like say that (Spanish) he was buried at the house (Spanish) rosary.  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  This would all be in Spanish, huh?
Nunez:  Oh, todo in Spanish, everybody in Spanish.  There was no such English.
Muñoz:  Okay.  And then the funeral after.  You say it was all night, the wake was all night long.
Nunez:  They believed in all night.  You know (Spanish), there was a funeral home.
Muñoz:   Yeah, the mortuary.
[00:05:42]
Nunez:  Uh-huh.  It was falling apart, but it was there.  (laughter)  (Spanish)  (recording paused)  Could you believe that?  (Spanish) Jerry helped her a lot.
Muñoz:  I know.  He’s been helping her a lot.  Okay, so we did the mortuary, and that was down by the Monte Vista (Spanish).
Nunez:  Uh-huh.  (Spanish) Monte Vista, it was just the plain….
Muñoz:  Just the mortuary, just an office there.  Okay.  And then funerals.  So funerals were taken part at the church?
Nunez:  Yeah.  They actually (Spanish) they carried them.  Long years ago there were no cars or anything.
Muñoz:  Right, so they walked all the way to the cemetery.
Nunez:  Uh-huh, because the cemetery was in walking distance.  It’s an all rain, shine.
Muñoz:  Rain or shine they walked, they took the casket.  That’s quite the weight they had to bear, huh?  Okay.  How about weddings, what were they like would you say?
Nunez:  Way old-fashioned kind.  (Spanish) modern nowadays.  Everybody, you know, los novios, you know, (Spanish), they had to foot the bill.
Muñoz:  Who foot the bill?
Nunez:  The novios.
Muñoz:  The husbands?
Nunez:  The husbands.  I know Joe did.
Muñoz:  Oh!  So it was a simple-more of a simplistic wedding.
Nunez:  Uh-huh.
Muñoz:  Not so big like they make 'em now.
[00:07:41]
Nunez:  Uh-uh.  And you didn’t go out of the house until you got married.  There’s no buts or ifs, no holding hands, shotgun weddings-like my mother, (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Oh yeah?  Where did he take her?
Nunez:  (Spanish) Holbrook.
Muñoz:  They got married in Holbrook?
Nunez:  (Spanish) license in Holbrook.  She got married with a Franciscan in Saint Johns.  And then they went to McNary.
Muñoz:  She never came back to Flag?
Nunez:  Not anymore, until I was born, my sister and I.
Muñoz:  Okay, and how about baptismals?
Nunez:  That was like the really nice original (Spanish) at bedtime (Spanish) house (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Oh wow, so it was very traditional sacraments.
Nunez:  (Spanish) thank you, bye!  You’re welcome!
Muñoz:  So much more simple, huh?
Nunez:  Uh-huh.
Muñoz:  So you described the food and the music.  What was that like?
Nunez:  The music was original, record players, (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Oh, that you remember.  Okay.
Nunez:  (Spanish) grandpa.  Emily has pictures of Raimundo, tocaban (Spanish).  And they practiced at my daddy’s house.
Muñoz:  Oh wow!  See, I didn’t know that.  Jim Figuroa played saxophone, huh?
[00:09:57]
Nunez:  Uh-huh, they all practiced there.
Muñoz:  And they practiced at Gene’s house?
Nunez:  No, my mom and dad’s house.  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  Bariolito?  Is that a song?
Nunez:  Yeah, (Spanish) song (Spanish) you know, the traditions (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Uh-huh, that bass.  So now you described the music.  How about the movie houses that you went to?
Nunez:  Oh, well, we hardly saw that, because we were kids.
Muñoz:  You didn’t go?
Nunez:  No, we weren’t….  We were fortunate to be [unclear], “Let’s go to the show.”  And the show was only eleven cents to go to the show.
Muñoz:  Oh wow.  That was good!
Nunez:  Eleven cents, (Spanish) ten cents.
Muñoz:  You can’t complain about that, huh?
Nunez:  (Spanish)  (recording paused)  Ten cents the piece of queso.
Muñoz:  Ten cents.  I tell ya’, times do change, huh?
Nunez:  Uh-huh.
Muñoz:  Okay.  So let’s see, (aside while adjusting recording equipment).  Since you didn’t go to the movies, I can’t ask you what you would see, because it wasn’t.
Nunez:  At that time, (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Oh really?
Nunez:  Uh-huh, old-fashioned movies.
[00:12:20]
Muñoz:  I got to see them in Williams [unclear].  I used to go see Cantínflas.
Nunez:  Not only that, but popular.
Muñoz:  Uh-huh.  Okay, so you were born in 1933, so you would probably remember, or have heard stories about the Depression.
Nunez:  Oh yeah.
Muñoz:  Tell me what that was like.
Nunez:  The Depression, we had to save our….  The Depression (Spanish) stamps.  (Spanish) stamps, you were allowed to buy sugar once a month.  (Spanish) sugar, (Spanish).  You had to change it for sugar.  And the Depression, the only thing you ate was beans and (Spanish).  The money (Spanish) was just like we were three or four of us and my daddy had to work hard to keep us going.
Muñoz:  He worked hard?  So did he hold two jobs, is that what you’re saying?
Nunez:  Yeah.  Well, he worked for Saginaw (Spanish) the green chain (Spanish).  But he used to (Spanish).  He would unload the trucks.  That was part of his job, (Spanish).  At that time, the renta wasn’t very expensive, so we could afford to buy a pair of shoes.
Muñoz:  Yeah.  Where were you living at the time?
Nunez:  Chantes, where we always [unclear].
Muñoz:  What was your address at the Chantes?  You don’t remember?
Nunez:  [unclear] old-fashioned street.
Muñoz:  Who was your next-door neighbor?
Nunez:  [unclear]
Muñoz:  Sovandero [phonetic], okay.
[00:14:28]
Nunez:  Sovandero, uh-huh.  He used to-at the marshal (Spanish) volcanico, (Spanish).  “It’s gonna hurt.”  (Spanish)  (laughter)
Muñoz:  (Spanish)  (laughter)
Nunez:  He left (Spanish) Jane or Jean or something.
Muñoz:  (Spanish)
Nunez:  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  Well how old was she?
Nunez:  She was young.
Muñoz:  Him?
Nunez:  He was maybe in his sixties, seventies, (Spanish).
Muñoz:  At that time.  Okay.  So Depression, you would describe it as being a pretty difficult time?
Nunez:  It was, uh-huh.  You know, if you wanted to buy a pair of (Spanish).  (aside about noise outdoors)
Muñoz:  So you guys didn’t have meat then?
Nunez:  Not that much.
Muñoz:  Did you guys have a garden at the Chantes?  No?
Nunez:  The other people probably did, pero nosotros, no.
Muñoz:  No.  Okay.  So you remember that, and the stamps.
Nunez:  Uh-huh.  Besides, I think [unclear] I went through some stamps-they’re somewhere.  Those stamps (Spanish).  The mail stamps, the two cents, one-cent stamp probably.
[00:16:31]
Muñoz:  To mail a letter.
Nunez:  Uh-huh, one cent!  (laughter)
Muñoz:  Ah, Lord, how time is changing!  Okay, Prohibition, the bootlegging days.
Nunez:  Oh, there was a lot of that going.
Muñoz:  Oh!  Tell what stories did you hear or did you see.
Nunez:  Well, (Spanish).
Muñoz:  So the cherife [phonetic], did he come often to see if anybody was….
Nunez:  Yeah, he would go [unclear].  I can’t remember, I think Mitchell is the one I remember a little bit of that.  He walked around and made sure.
Muñoz:  Oh, got off his horse, huh?
Nunez:  Yeah.  And I’m sure you got to see that horse, because (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Oh, in the Chantes?  My grandparents did, yeah.  They probably did.  I wonder if they remember.  I mean, not my grandparents, but my uncles.
Nunez:  They should.
Muñoz:  Yeah, I bet they do.  I’ll have to ask them.  So your family, did they participate in doing liquor?
Nunez:  Uh-uh [no].
Muñoz:  Your parents didn’t?
Nunez:  Uh-uh.
Muñoz:  But I know my grandpa spent time in jail.  (laughter)
Nunez:  There was a lot of bootleggin’. 
Muñoz:  Okay, medicine.
[00:18:03]
Nunez:  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  Okay, I was gonna ask [you] to describe types of home remedies.
Nunez:  (Spanish) sore throats.  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  What’s malva?
Nunez:  (Spanish) wild.
Muñoz:  A wild plant, huh?
Nunez:  Uh-huh, a wild plant, malva.  (Spanish) migraine (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Uh-huh, fever, okay.
Nunez:  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  (Spanish) Vaseline based?
Nunez:  Uh-huh, (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Oh wow.  Okay.  Now, where would they get that anica?
Nunez:  It’s a wild thing.
Muñoz:  Wild thing!  (laughter)
Nunez:  Okay, (Spanish) there’s some over here.
Muñoz:  Oh, en el monte, yeah.  In Buffalo Park, yeah.
Muñoz:  And they don’t let you get it, though.
Muñoz:  Oh, really?
Nunez:  It’s against the law.
Muñoz:  Wow, I didn’t know that.  What hospital was there at that time?
Nunez:  (Spanish) hospital.
Muñoz:  La Mercy?
[00:20:36]
Nunez:  Uh-huh, that’s it.
Muñoz:  At the Chantes?
Nunez:  Uh-huh.
Muñoz:  Who were the doctors there, do you remember?
Nunez:  God only knows.  (laughter)
Muñoz:  You don’t remember.  When you were born, were you born at home?
Nunez:  Oh yeah, in McNary.
Muñoz:  In McNary.  Who was your midwife, do you remember?
Nunez:  Sandoval (Spanish).
Muñoz:  (Spanish)
Nunez:  Grandma de [unclear].
Muñoz:  Oh, Rose [unclear], okay.
Nunez:  [unclear]
Muñoz:  Oh, they did too?  Okay.
Nunez:  (Spanish) he did too, but no me recuerdo.  (Spanish) midwife (Spanish).
Muñoz:  He was born here in Flagstaff?
Nunez:  Uh-huh, in Los Chantes.  And he was born in Los Chantes.  We were born in McNary.
Muñoz:  Okay.  So when your parents moved from McNary, they moved straight to the Chantes?
Nunez:  Uh-huh.  De verdad.
Muñoz:  What do you remember-a one-bedroom house?
[00:21:41]
Nunez:  Oh yeah.  [unclear]  And a living room and (Spanish) kitchen (Spanish) kitchen, bedroom, living room, bedroom, (Spanish).
Muñoz:  All in one room?
Nunez:  Uh-huh.
Muñoz:  Wood floors?
Nunez:  Yeah, wood floors.
Muñoz:  Taba [phonetic] floors.  (laughs)
Nunez:  They were [unclear] floors.  (laughter)
Muñoz:  And the plumbing, I remember the plumbing was outdoors.
Nunez:  Yeah, uh-huh.  (Spanish) fountain (Spanish) Chantes (Spanish).
(recording paused)
Muñoz:  Okay, curranderas.  Did your family use curranderas?
Nunez:  Mi mama (Spanish).
Muñoz:  She was a currandera herself, yeah.
Nunez:  Uh-huh, (Spanish) Espalda (Spanish) when I was walking.  They grow on little trees.  Como se llama?  I had the name of it this morning.  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  I don’t know what they’re called.
Nunez:  And I saw 'em when I was walking.  I saw the little leaves.  They’re like bushes.  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  (Spanish) that pink one?
Nunez:  Uh-huh, those pink ones.  (Spanish) two, three days, (Spanish).
Muñoz:  Oh yeah?  Uh-huh.  (Spanish) empacho, huh?
[00:24:26]
Nunez:  Uh-huh.  (Spanish)  That one I don’t remember too well (Spanish) make sure (Spanish) for a few days.  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  Right, right.  And this was your mother that was the currandera, and her grandma was a currandera.
Nunez:  (Spanish)
Muñoz:  [unclear] Vega.  Okay.  And your mother, did she play-like your great-grandma-a big part in the community, serving as a currandera?
Nunez:  Mother, no.
Muñoz:  No?
Nunez:  Uh-uh.
Muñoz:  (Spanish)
Nunez:  (Spanish) uh-huh.
Muñoz:  Oh, just people that knew that she was a currandera.
Nunez:  Uh-huh, not with nobody else.
Muñoz:  Okay.  How about any folklore stories?  Do you know of any folklore stories, la llorona or….
Nunez:  (Spanish)  We thought it was a nice fence to that porch, (Spanish).
Muñoz:  So it was kind of loose?
Nunez:  Yeah, uh-huh, [unclear].  We had to watch (Spanish) in the dark (Spanish).
Muñoz:  No?  He didn’t know who it was, but he just [unclear].
Nunez:  And then our house (Spanish) garage.  We used to park the Al Capone car (Spanish) garage (Spanish).
[00:27:08]
Muñoz:  [unclear]  What year was the flood?  How old were you then?
Nunez:  Oh, I was in my teens already.  I was still going to school.
Muñoz:  1945, so in the late forties?
Nunez:  Uh-huh.
Muñoz:  Forties, fifties.  Wow.  So you heard….  And this was your dad and your tio giving you [the story?]?
Nunez:  Uh-huh.
Muñoz:  But you actually didn’t hear anything or see anything?
Nunez:  No, no, uh-uh.
Muñoz:  Alright.  I believe that’s the conclusion of this, so we have come to it already.  So therefore, I think we are done.
Nunez:  The next time, when we have time, I’ll go through those pictures, the ones that are on the top, Ray, (Spanish) and I’ll have them ready.
Muñoz:  Sounds good.
[END OF INTERVIEW]