Oral history interview with Frank and Elsie Auza [English transcript], November 5, 1997.

              NAU.OH.97.68.24
21764
Frank and Elsie Auza
Interviewed by Delia Ceballos Muñoz
November 5, 1997
Today’s date is November 5th, 1997. The time is 2:00pm for Northern Arizona University and I am conducting an oral history for Northern Arizona University Special Collections and Archives. Today I am going to do the Auza’s. I will start with Elsie.
Would you introduce yourself?
Mrs. Auza: Yes, I am Elsie Auza.
Muñóz: And your address?
Mrs. Auza: It is 22 South ___
Muñóz: And your date of birth?
Mrs. Auza: It’s July the 12th .
Muñóz: And Mr. Auza? Your name?
Mr. Auza: Frank Auza.
Muñóz: And the address?
Mr. Auza: ______.
Muñóz: And your date of birth?
Mrs. Auza: When were you born?
Mr. Auza: March 5th 1905
Muñóz: Can you tell me who were your parents? What were their names?
Mr. Auza: Jacinto Auza.
Muñóz: And the mother?
Mr. Auza: Antonia.
Muñóz: Antonia Auza. Where were they from?
Mr. Auza: From Spain, Navarra.
Muñóz: And, how did they get to Flagstaff?
Mr. Auza: In the year 15.
Mrs. Auza: But he came first that she did.
Muñóz: The father?
Mrs. Auza: She came with the kids?
Muñóz: So, you father came first, was he looking for a job?
Mrs. Auza: He was... where was your dad working at?
Mr. Auza: Whom?
Mrs. Auza: You father?
Mr. Auza: He had a ranch in Phoenix.
Muñóz: In Phoenix? Ok, he came to Phoenix first then?
Mr. Auza: No, to Phoenix, in the year 20 my mother came.
Muñóz: Well, but you father was here before your mother right?
Mr. Auza: Yes, in the year 10. Muñóz: What brought you father here, work opportunities or the family?
Mr. Auza: The sheep.
Muñóz: So he was one of the first... shepherds" here?, in Flagstaff?
Mr. Auza: The first one, no...
Muñóz: Elsie, And you parents were...
Mrs. Auza: Mi father was_____ Barreras and my mother was Modesta ______.
Muñóz: And where were they from Elsie?
Mrs. Auza: My mother was from _____ New Mexico and my father was from Montecelo, New Mexico.
Muñóz: And what brought them to Flagstaff?
Mrs. Auza: My father came here to Flagstaff, it snowed a lot. My mother wanted to live in a place with no snow. He came here and started to work in the ... it was the dairy of_____. Sarabia owned it, the dairy. My father started to work there with him, and my uncle Isidro and y aunt Mary.... We came with them in June, 1924. We were three kids coming with my mother and my uncle. And we came here and my father was already working. We came to Flagstaff, close to the Plaza Vieja. And I went to school, I started school in June, the____third grade here in the Normal School.
Muñóz: Did your father have a _____ already...
Mrs. Auza: No, later on he went over there at the... riding his horse , I mean riding_____ starting at a lumber company. They pulled pine trees with horses, he worked for a long time there. Pulling trees so the trucks could hook them up, and later the train started pulling them in the railroad.
Munóz: And you already mentioned where you lived before. By La Plaza Vieja.
Mrs. Auza: Yes, in this side, I do not know this street, I do not remember the name. The street that is on this side of the railroad. You know, 1st. The water is in the other side of the railroad. We lived in the second house in this side.
Muñóz: Was the house bought or...
Mrs. Auza: No, they rented it, my aunt, and my uncle was also there. We were living there together for a while and later we moved to this side where _____lives, what’s his name...
Muñóz: Leroux
Mrs. Auza: Leroux. And later we lived here _______and I was working in a store when I was 16. And then he was _____ the boss. And they left, he closed the store and they left to... I forgot.
Mr. Auza: Albuquerque.
Mrs. Auza: And later they told me that I could work there If I wanted and I told them they were not going to allow me anyhow. So, later I went there, to..., Frank Rodriguez_______,there was supposed to be a grocery story, not a grocery store but a products store. Frank was working there and he said: what happened he said, they closed the store. He told me: do you know that Joe Babbitt was looking for a girl to work with her?. All the stores had only one salesperson, during the depression. So anyway, I went over to Joe Babbitt and she had five girls. I had to get up at 7:00am and the girls would be dancing, tap dancing. I was not very happy I did not want that and getting up at seven o’clock in the morning so, Mrs. Babbitt ____she was looking for a girl too. She said that she was looking for a lady from.... _____, a Morman, she was going to work with her and so she told me that... I was cleaning the windows in the house of Joe Babbitt and she told me: Would you like to work ____? I said: ask that lady but I would like to work in your place, what city? _______Mrs. Babbitt, she was always a nice person. ______. Just for a little while, until my other girls comes. When my other girl comes she can come back she said. She had her mother and Mr. Babbitt was not very well, so she took care of Mr. Babbitt because he was sick, I mean his stomach. He drank too much beer, that was the problem. Anyway, later on I worked there about three or four years for Mrs. Babbitt and the kids were all little. ____was about ten years old, Jimmy was about eight. And then Katherine, she was pregnant _____, and she went to Roma Linda ____ and she had the baby over there and once she was one year old she brought the baby to me and I had her in my bedroom and I had to take care of that little girl. _______when she brought her from California and I took care of her everyday, everyday. ___________.
[Confusing conversation].
Munóz: So you played a nanny, was that your role with the Babbitt?
Mrs. Auza: And she had a mother too. And her mother had a high blood pressure and _____. She had seizures, strong headaches and then I had to lay her down in bed and all that so I had to leave that room opened so I can check on her. _________.
Muñóz: So, when you stayed with that Babitt, , did you stay there and then come home that afternoon or did you stay there all the time?
Mrs. Auza: I stayed there and I came home on Thursdays. I spent a little while with my family, but I had to go back to sleep because I had to take care of Mrs.____and the baby. In the morning I got up and I fixed breakfast for the children. There were _______and ____. There were three. And then she had twins, Katherine and Rosemary. I thought Katherine would be more of a nun that Rosemary because Rosemary was a regular cowboy. Frank used to go with his horses and Rosemary would get hold of his stirrup. Frank you have to give me a ride! She said. So Frank would give her a ride around the block. _____
Muñóz: When your family came to Flagstaff, where was your first home at? Here in this house?
Mr. Auza: Yes.
Muñóz: Were you renting it or you bought it?
Mr. Auza: What?
Mrs. Auza: Was this house belonged to you father or...
Mr. Auza: No, from the Asusteilis.
Muñóz: Oh from the Asusteilis. Was this the first house where you lived at?
Mr. Auza: Yes.
Muñóz: What kind of neighborhood was this when you first got here?
Mr. Auza: There were no people.
Mrs. Auza: Of course there were!. All the houses had people!!!
Muñóz: Were there any houses when you got here? Just this one?
Mr.Auza: No, there were more, all these.
Mrs. Auza: Yes, all these houses were here. Josefa was living here, and the Rodriguez. He went to Saint Anthony School ____third grade there. And then they sent them where the sheep were so they did not get the flu. Because it broke up the flu epidemic, and they sent him to the sheep.
[confusing part].
Mr. Auza: He was 14 years old.
Muñóz: He left to the sheep when he was 14?
Mrs. Auza: Thirteen, he was 13 years old when he went to the sheep with his brother. He was a shepherd, his brother. Muñóz: You father, who was he working with as borreguro- shepherd?
Mr.Auza: _______
Muñóz: Oh! He was the one having the sheep? ______? Did he work with him for a long time?
Mr. Auza: No, until he sold it, 2 years. _______. Those_____ and then Dr. Raymond.
Muñóz: Are those the bosses you had?
Mrs. Auza: He was working with the _______ and he....
Mr. Auza: I bought the sheep in the 59 .
Muñóz: And then you went up and came down every year right? Was it the Fall when you used to come down?
Mrs. Auza: They went down. A______ during late October?
Mr. Auza: Si, yes during the last days of October we went down, and early June we went up.
Muñóz: And how did you carry the sheep?
Mrs. Auza: Walking.
Mr. Auza: Walking
Muñóz: Walking? Didn’t you have any horses during that time?
Mr. Auza: Horses! yes
Muñóz: How long did it take to go up?
Mr. Auza: One month and a half from Cordas to here
Muñóz: When you arived, where did you put the sheep?
Mr. Auza: Where? Well, in Howard Lake.
Mrs. Auza: That was when he was working with Dr. Raymond.
Muñóz: How old were you when you work with Dr. Raymond?
Mrs. Auza: I was old... I had 28 years old when we got married. So it was around there. _____.
Mr. Auza: I had thirty three years old when I first started working with Dr. Raymond.
Muñóz: And before Raymond, were you with Espil?
Mr. Auza: Peter Spill? Yes.
Muñóz: For how long were you there?
Mr. Auza: With whom?
Muñóz: With Peter Spills.
Mr. Auza: Eight years.
Muñóz: So you started when you were 14 and kept working until now...
Mrs. Auza: He was 28.
Muñóz: He had his own_____.
Mrs. Auza: No, that was when we got married, 1933. He was working for Dr. Raymond then. ______.
Muñóz: Well they went up and down in October and then in June they went up and then he took them to Howard Lake and Rogers Lake, was that land ______?
Mr. Auza: _________.
Muñóz: Who did the land belong to? To the ______?
Mrs. Auza: It belonged to Dr. Raymond and ______. Power Lake belonged to ______.
Muñóz: _______. How did that work?
Miss Auza: Well I do not know, Dr. Raymond, era de el. _____Howard Lake belonged to____.
So he took care of ______. [Confusing conversation]. Muñóz: Ok Mr. Auza, let me ask you. ______ Were there many kids around when you were a small boy?
Mr. Auza: There were lot of kids. Now there aren’t.
Muñóz: When you arrived to the U.S. at the age of 10, did you come by train?
Mr. Auza: By boat, by oat and train.
Muñóz: Ok, tell me the story about how you came here. Do you remember?
Mr. Auza: One week by train and one week by boat.
Muñóz: What do you remember when you came here?
Mrs. Auza: Do you remember when you came to Flagstaff ? When you came from Spain, did you come here?
Mr. Auza: No, to Phoenix, first. Later _______, they closed the _____because of the flu. And my dad died in Phoenix in the 20.
Muñóz: With the flu?
Mr. Auza: No, he had an ulcer.
Mr. Auza: In the year 20 my mother bought this house.
Muñóz: Did she come with all her sons?
Mr. Auza: Yes, she sold the ranch there and bought something here.
Muñóz: Did she stay for a long time in this house?
Mrs. Auza: She died in this room.
Mr. Auza: She died here.
Mrs. Auza: She used to work in the high school.
Mr. Auza: Oh yes! Washing cloth.
Mrs. Auza: She washed by hand.
Munóz: _____?
Mrs. Auza: No in the college. She ironed and washed.
Mrs. Auza: She had pneumonia and she died.
Mr. Auza: The flu, in the 23, and died here.
Muñóz: Well and ... what do you remember about your youth? What kind of games did you have when you were young? Were you living in Phoenix still? How old were you when you came to Flagstaff?
Mr.Auza: Fourteen.
Mrs. Auza: Didn’t you go to school in Saint Anthony ?
Mr.Auza: No.
Mr. Auza: Didn’t you say that you went to the Catholic school when you were here? ...
Mr. Auza: In Phoenix.
Mrs. Auza: Oh in Phoenix, you were not here then.
Muñóz: So you did not go to school here?
Mr. Auza: No.
Muñóz: You went to school in Phoenix.
Mrs. Auza: South Mountain.
Mr. Auza: The desert was closed because of the flu. In 19 ____work in because I had a mother there. ______. Muñóz: Were all your studies in Phoenix? Well...during that time. Well you were14, do you remember your childhood days. What types of food do you remember growing up with. What did you have around?
Mrs. Auza: Well, we had beans and the same things we have right now.
Muñóz: Were these beans and potatoes planted at home or?
Mrs. Auza: We bought them in a grocery store.
Muñóz: Was that a neighborhood store?
Mrs. Auza: The Judíos had a store in the old town...______father. What was his name, I do not remember. The father of_____.
Muñóz: Wasn’t his name Jimmy?
Mrs. Auza: Jimmy, then he is the one _____, the judge.
Mrs. Auza: What was ____ father’s name? the ___he had the store in la Plaza Vieja?
Muñóz: Did you mother have a garden when she was here?
Mr. Auza: Oh yes!
Muñóz: Did she grow vegetables?
Mrs. Auza: Cabbage
Mr.Auza_______.
Muñóz: Did she have animals such as pigs? chicken?
Mrs. Auza: She was working, she could not take care of that. Josefa had chicken, they moved the chicken here, she threw them there.
Muñóz: Mr. Auza, in this neighborhood, where were the stores? Do you remember those stores?
Mr. Auza: Stores? There were a lot.
Muñóz: Around here?
Mr. Auza: In San Francisco.
Mrs. Auza: ____he was Salvador, Salvador ____ he had a store I his house. There is where I used to go when we lived there. We used to buy there, that was our store
Munóz: Is that the only neighborhood store?
Mr. Auza: There was this one too. What is its name?
Mrs. Auza: Jesús, that was not the one, that one was later. Jesús...
Muñóz: Contreras.
Mrs. Auza: Contreras.
Muñóz: Is he still there?
Muñóz: Yes, he still there . He still has his store.
Mrs.Auza: We lived in the house that is next to it. When I got married. It belonged to the sawmill.
Muñóz: And then, the big stores to buy beef? Did you go to the stores?
Mrs.Auza______, in the main street, in Aspen.
Muñóz: Did your family raised any animals at home?
Mrs. Auza: No
Muñóz: We covered the school. You went to Saint Anthony Elzie?
Mrs. Auza: No, I never did. I went to Normal School. That was a Training School up to the 8th grade. Then I graduated from the 8th grade and went for 2 or 3 months to the high school. An then my brother was ____and my mother and my dad did not have a job, it was during the Depressionso... I quit and it was when I went to work in that store. _____.
Muñóz: How was school like then?
Mrs. Auza: It was great! I love that school! It was really a good school. The girls could have cooking. We used to have cooking in the _____, there in the main building. The boys would have ____training and the girls could have typing and the boys too.
Muñóz: Did you hold the same friends in school pretty much that you had in the neighborhood or were they different?
Mrs. Auza: No, the kids that I had in school I had them for a long time . Alcedillo, she was my best girlfriend that I had over there.. Y la Juanita, a lot of times I had fights with Juanita.
Muñóz: What was her last name?
Mrs. Auza: _____. They lived there, across the street from where I lived. That was my first girlfriend that I had. ______. Later on in life she started going out with this other boy and she got married and I got married so, we split it up. So, she became kind of ___funny so, I never... I had my friends over here and she had her friends over there.
Muñóz: Is that when you moved from la Plaza Vieja to down here in this area?
Mrs.Auza: Yes we moved over here and that is when I met... my best friend was Nela ____, Nino’s sister, la Margarita, Tita’s mother and they lived there, next door.
They were my best friends. She started_____. So she had two cows and I used to go before to _____ because we had two cows and we had to get the milk. There was a man, his name was _____, he used to get the milk after he started working. But I used to help with delivery. _________.
Muñóz: Did you have a role model?
Mrs.Auza: I do not remember a role model _____[ she laughs].
Muñóz: What about someone or anyone you admired while you were growing up?
Mrs.Auza: I do not think so, there were not too many. It was during the Depressionthere were not too many role models that you_____anyway.
Munóz: Did you have an idea of who or what you wanted to be when you grew up?
Mrs. Auza: I always wanted to be a teacher but I could never afford it. I had to go to work and that was always_____.
Muñóz: And your first language was?
Mrs. Auza: Spanish.
Muñóz: Did you have a hard time when you were going to school? With communication?
Mrs. Auza: No, I did not. I used to talk English and Spanish together, so I got the English. I did not have any problem making friends or anything. I enjoyed_____ . All the kids from here, they used to go to Training School and ______. I never went to the Catholic School. My brother went to Catholic School because my mother took him out of the Beaver School because he was not doing a damn thing. So she sent him to the Catholic School and he hated those...pelonas". She used to call them...pelonas". He did not like the Sisters. I never went to the Sisters School because we could not afford it during the depression. We had to pay _____. I told my mother. He was a little boy, I was thirteen years older than him. She had him when I was here.
Muñóz: You know, I never asked about soap. Did you make soap or did buy soap from the store? Mrs. Auza: During the war we made soap. We had a lot of towel from the sheep, we saved towel and we made soap. My mother would leave me some here in the house in a pan an I would make some at the ranch. Do you remember the soap that we made with oil to save it for... we would take it over to Babbitts and then sell it to make soap. ________. [Conversation not clear].
Muñóz: Mr. Auza: Frank, when you were a kid, what things do you remember that you liked?
Mrs. Auza: What things do you remember from your childhood?
Mr. Auza: I started working when I was 8 in Spain.
Muñóz: Oh! What did you do in Spain?
Mr. Auza: I worked with the people who were hiring and bought cows and sheep.
Mrs. Auza: He did not like school so he did not go. _______.
Muñóz: Which people?
Mrs. Auza: Traders.
Mr. Auza: From 8 to10 years old until I came here. I worked for two years. They gave me food.
Muñóz: Oh, so you worked to help your family at home?
Mrs. Auza: They gave him food.
Muñóz: Oh! They gave you food! What did they give you? Sheep or cow or what?
Mrs: Auza: No, they gave him food. ___ when he was going back and forth.
Mr. Auza: And he was working as a man.
Munóz: At 8 years old!, what a tough life!
Mr. Auza: Fifteen dollars. For two years of work.
Mrs. Auza: Imagine, $15 for 2 years of work. That is slavery for you.
Muñóz: I am telling you!
Mrs. Auza: Child abuse !!!
Muñóz: And when you came here, and started working at 14, what do you remember? Was your job hard?
Mr. Auza: I worked taking care of cows in Phoenix.
Muñóz: And afterwards? ...
Mr. Auza: _____ with an Indian
Muñóz: Did you take care of them in the desert?
Mr. Auza: Fifteen dollars a month .
Muñóz: Fifteen dollars a month? So you were cowboy? Because you were taking care of cows right ?
Mrs. Auza: _____What did you say about that woman who came? The one that the horse____.
Mr. Auza: One guy took care of sheep and I took care of the cows. I started working packing grass. There I made 3 dollars a day.
Muñóz: Much better that the other one right! Out of those $3, did you have to buy food or they gave you the food?
Mrs. Auza: Did they give you food?
Mr. Auza: No, we ate at home.
Munóz: And then you said that you were using book 3 at school. Did you go to school in Phoenix?
Mr. Auza: In Phoenix.
Muñóz: Was your first language Spanish or Basco...Basque"?
Mrs. Auza: Basco...Basque". Mr. Auza: I didn’t know Spanish when I came here. Just Basco...Basque".
Muñóz: how did you communicate with people ?
Mr. Auza: I couldn’t talk to anyone.
Mrs. Auza: And know he can talk and he does not talk.. [she laughs].
Muñóz: And how did you talk to someone who did not talk Basco...Basque" ?
Mr. Auza: Signs or something.
Munóz: So, when did you learn Spanish ?
Mr. Auza: English and Spanish at the same time.
Muñóz: Oh yes?
Mr. Auza: Yes
Muñóz: Were there a lot of Basco...Basque"s here during that time ?
Mr. Auza: Yes, there were a lot of people from Spain.
Muñóz: You are saying that you used signs every time you wanted to communicate.
Mr. Auza: _____There were a million and a half when I came.
Mrs. Auza: ____ in a corner, era boarding house. And here, this house of the Santa, that was a boarding house too. And then the ____,her father, they had boarding house when I came here.
Mr. Auza: There were 3 ¬_____here.
Muñóz: People from Spain were coming to those houses.
Mrs. Auza: They came from the sheep to rest for a week or two .Some came and some left. There were boys !a lot you can choose from.
Muñóz: You had a big selection ah!
Mrs. Auza: There were really a lot of good boys. Some came and some left. Now there aren’t too many but before there were but ... you know, that Martínez place, they had a court. They used to play handball. And here in this corner where there are two store houses, they had also a handball. I used to _____. And of course we were just a few girls that went to the dances. They had dances every Thursdays and Saturdays or Sundays.
Muñóz: Where were your dance halls at ?
Mrs. Auza: It was in the houses. The had parties at the houses.
Munóz: Oh really?
Mrs. Auza: Yes, they had some here. But, that corner where Jacinta is, you know, _____ her mother, she had ______. [conversation not clear].
Muñóz: Since you finished school young, then most of your friends were the same at school and in the neighborhood?
Mrs. Auza: I think they were more Mexican than anything else? _______ He had a sister, Fannny, who came from Spain. He, Fanny and Joe. _____. And Martina was born here, y _____later on she came here. Martina didn’t come with your mother?
Mr. Auza: Yes
Munóz: So, who was the oldest? So Frank, did you have to help your mother to support your family?
Mrs. Auza: She is asking if you had to help you mom with the kids...
Mr. Auza: ______I gave her a hand until she died. The last year she had $700. The check of the year. She didn’t want it because she had money. She told me: keep it, I want you to have something someday. She made money working in the high school . Muñóz: Did she work for a long time there?
Mr. Auza: Two years, no 3 years. From year 20 to 23.
Mrs.Auza: _____And she got pneumonia , I think she was sweating. And then she got pneumonia and died. During that time there were a lot of people dying from pneumonia . They couldn’t heal them . Now nobody dies from pneumonia. ____.
Muñóz: Frank, did you admire someone?
Mrs.Auza: I bet he wanted to be a man with lots of money.
Muñóz: Did you watch movies, were there cowboys? Didn’t you like the movies?
Mrs. Auza: I went to the show, let’s see I was going with another boy and he was at the show with his sister. And I was watching the ___talking to us. I was not watching.. And Martin ____I told him turn around. _____ [Conversation not clear].
Munóz: During that time Mr. Auza, when you came to this side of the neighborhood, were there people from Spain and Mexico, were they mixed with others?
Mr. Auza: They were all mixed.
Mrs. Auza: There were American, from Spain and Mexican.
Muñóz: Ok, and... the American were from...
Mrs. They were American from here.
Muñóz: Ok, they spoke English, they didn’t speak other... Ok, there was no discrimination between the people from Spain, Basques and Mexican?
Mrs. Auza: No, everybody got along real well.
Muñóz: Everyone got together? Because there is also cultural differences.
Mrs. Auza: I heard about that but there was no difference when I saw them _____.
Muñóz: What about the church they went to?
Mrs. Auza: Nativity.
Muñóz: And Frank? Which church...
Mrs. Auza: ____when I took him. He used to wait for me outside. He waited for me outside, one day, I came inside and he and the other guy were waiting out there, and I forgot and said : I better go and check and they were seated there in the library, so, they came in.
Muñóz: Ok, was that the only church during that time ?
Mrs. Auza: No, first was the, well in 1929 that one was built. Then they built the Guadalupe. _____. We got married in Nativity.
Muñóz: Do you remember the cemetery that was there called the Calaveras?
Mrs. Auza: Yes, yes, that was long time ago and there were not too many houses. There were some house from a bakery owner. I do not remember where he was. They had, on Sundays they used to have _____. That was the only house, but way back there. There was a cemetery there that people said that...some people died there and were buried . I don’t know who they were.
Muñóz: Did the cemetery had a name?
Mrs. Auza: I never went that close to it but I could see it from the house. There was a cemetery right down the hill.
Muñóz: Did you move here before Frank? On this side of the street? Or did he move here first?
Mrs. Auza: Well, I did not even know. His mother was already gone when I moved over here. Then his brother lived here. Mr. Auza: Where is it , San Francisco, by the high school, there was the_______.
Mrs. Auza: All that was... there were no houses there. Every two weeks we had carnivals, circuses, and I used to go to school. I went to Training School. And at noon, we came and we used to stop, and one time they got mad at me because I was late about an hour and he ______. He asked me what I was doing and I told him I was looking at the animals. Every two weeks venían los circus, el circus Escalante _____.
Muñóz: Would you say your parents were pretty strict?
Mrs. Auza: Yes, they were very strict.
Muñóz: Do you think that was part of the________ the culture?
Mrs. Auza: Well, everybody was strict to their children anyway. Everybody kid had a strict father and mother because during that time was strict with their children. They had to be home at certain time?
Muñóz: Ok, Frank, how old were you when your dad died?
Mr. Auza: Thirteen.
Muñóz: Have you started with the sheep when he died?
Mr. Auza: I was working with the sheep.
Muñóz: You were already working with the sheep! You had to start working very early in life ah!
Mr. Auza: I started in the year 19 and my dad died in the 20.
Mrs. Auza ______
Muñóz: Frank, I am going to ask you the same thing. Do you remember the cemetery that was here called the Calaveras? I do not know why they called it the Calaveras.
Mrs. Auza: Well because_____.
Mr. Auza: The cemetery has been always there.
Mrs. Auza: But the cemetery for one or two people. __ do you remember? There were some pine trees.
Mr. Auza: No, I don’t know.
Muñóz: You don’t remember?
Mrs. Auza: He was not paying attention to that anyway. He was always____ around.
Muñóz: Do you remember los Chantes?
Mrs. Auza: In the sawmill?
Muñóz: In the sawmill?
Mr. Auza: Yes.
Muñóz: Do you remember the Saint that they put in Los Chantes?
Mrs. Auza: Wasn’t it a Christ?
Mr. Auza: _______ They took it to the forest.
Mrs. Auza: It wasn’t a Saint, it was a Jesus Christ statue.
Muñóz: I am asking about the Saint.
Muñóz: So you don’t remember ? Do you remember seeing the people come and go by train to los Chantes?
Mrs. Auza: Do you know what, Gorge was the train driver. He was a conductor, he was going back and forth.
Muñóz: What year was that ?
Mrs. Auza: Oh! I do not remember. It was when I had my little ones, you know, I had my kids during that time. He got married to ____. Later he got that job. Have you talked to ___? Muñóz: I have, but every now and then she puts me up but I’ll get back to her. Well, what do you remember of the sawmill? Nothing? When it was there in Los Chantes?
Mr. Auza: No, well there were three_____they had a big water pump and then. ___They built this around the year 18.
Mrs. Auza: We had two nice mills y they had to destroyed the whole damn thing____.
Mr. Auza: They even called them the new sawmill and the old sawmill. It belonged to Riordan.
Muñóz: Elzie, do you know D’Spain last name?
Mrs. Auza: Yes he is Bush’s brother.
Muñóz: One day they went out with tamales. Was someone selling tamales in the neighborhood?
Mrs. Auza: There was a...tamalera", and Silvestre, Don Silvestre, he used to live here and he had a small car, if you wanted tamales you went out to the street and told him... she was going ____we told him that we wanted tamales and she brought the car full of tamales. Every Saturday.
Muñóz: Silvestre was her name?
Mrs. Auza: His name was Silvestre, I don’t remember her name. She was Don Silvestre’s wife. She used to live in a house somewhere around there.
Muñóz: Ok but it was Silvestre, but you do not know his last name ah! Silvestre was a new last name. [conversation not clear].
Mrs. Auza: Maybe Tita or somebody would know. Maybe she remembers because I forget a lot of those things.
Munóz: Were the weddings different from how they are now?
Mrs. Auza: Well there were not very many weddings because people would just go to the... over there. You want to get married tomorrow, and you would just get married. We got married on Sunday evening and we asked Father _____ from Nogales because Father _____was in France that year. You know, you just went on Saturday and tell him that you wanted to get married next day.
Muñóz: Were there big weddings like they have now or ....
Mrs. Auza: No, they could not afford it. Nobody could afford big weddings. You just went up there and got married and that is it.
Muñóz: How about ____? Were they ___big?
Mrs. Auza: I never went to. One time I went up there. I was invited to a ____, they had two or three kids, they were going ____. They had a big barbecue and all the people from Spain were there and they asked me to go buy I could make it , I was working.
Muñóz: Who was this?
Mrs. Auza: What was that’s guy name? Gillian? Over there at the Aspen. They had a big weeding ___but I could not go, I was working but they had a big barbeque and all the Spanish people were invited, I don’t know who else was there but I did not go.
Muñóz: For example when people died, was there mortuary?
Mrs. Auza: No there was not....well there was a mortuary but most of the time they had them at home. You know, anybody that died, they just buried them, I mean, they had them at home. And then from home, right away... I mean I do not think it was a mortuary. ________.And then after somebody died, I mean the smell of the fire was still in your living room. When my mother and dad died there was already mortuary.
Muñóz: Frank, when you mother died, there wasn’t mortuary? Mrs. Auza: They had her there?
Mr. Auza: Yes, yes.
Muñóz: They had her there? Did you have the rosaries during that time ?
Mrs. Auza: Yes yes, there was a woman called Rosario she, I do not know, she used to live there by _____, not in the big houses, next street, you know where ____. Oh! She would _____there was not a woman missing ____you would be so tired of_____.[confused sentence]
Muñóz: Ok, you talked about dance house, the dance house on San Francisco street? Do you remember them?
Mrs.Auza: Yes, Felipe Angeles, and he was_____he had lots of ___for the 4th of July and they had different___ lot of girls to have like a_____. [confusing conversation.]
Muñóz: Did you go dancing Frank? When you were young? _____did you go dancing?
Mr. Auza: To dances, yes.
Mrs. Auza: He started going when I...he told me if there were any dancing , he would go up there________but he did not start dancing until about the day we got married. He did not know how to dance.
Muñóz: And what type of music was that ?
Mrs. Auza: Oh, there were 3 musicians and they were called...they were relatives of Giorga . Manuel, _____. Anyway there was three guys______and the guitar.
Munóz: Community celebrations. Do you remember any?
Mrs. Auza: Yes, 4th of July. We had up there in the City Park.
Muñóz: What about in this area? Did they have anything celebrating in this area ?
Mrs. Auza: No, the only thing was the 4th of July that I remember.
Muñóz: Ok, depression, you talked about that quit a bit and that was kind of hard for you.
Mrs. Auza: Well it was hard for everybody!
Muñóz: So, around that time even your father was out of work. He always ____or did his children help...
Mrs. Auza: I was the only child that was working. My brother was a baby when I was growing up. I was 16 when I was working you know, with the Babbitts.
Muñóz: Frank, what do you remember about the depression?
Mrs. Auza: He always said that, everybody that got married must be dumb.
Muñóz: Was it a hard time during the depression? How would you tell me the story if you remember it?
Mr.Auza: No, I suffered, actually I didn’t suffer but many people did .
Muñóz: Really? Because there was not enough to eat?
Mrs. Auza: No, there was food, what happened is that you had to ...
Mr. Auza: The government started to give people food.
Mrs. Auza: Do you know what? You had to give stamps, and I remember that there was _____ that school. Where those apartments are, it was a school. Anyway, there Is where the food used to come from and a lot of people in the winter ______.Even after I got married, everybody would go there with their wagons and they got flowers and sugar and everything else.
Mr. Auza: There were a lot of people from Mexico.
Munóz: Here?
Mr. Auza: Here, and the police took them to Mexico.
Muñóz: They sent them back? There wasn’t enough for them? Mrs. Auza: People who didn’t have citizenship, were took back. Do you know Beiter, There is a Beiter. She had a sister, I think, yes, she had a sister, she was my friend. They took her family and sent them back to Mexico. The whole _____and that made everybody sad because everybody had friends, during the depression, because there was not enough work for everybody.
Munóz: Oh I bet!
Mr. Auza: When I came from Spain, lots of families were taken here from Mexico, with no papers. All those people who didn’t have papers during the Depressionwere sent back to Mexico.
Muñóz: Oh!, and how did they arranged their paperwork?
Mrs. Auza: Well, they had to get citizenship, they had to...
Mr. Auza: So they were not papers.
Mrs. Auza: When he got married, he got the citizenship and he had to learn the constitution of the Unites States when he went to school. He became a citizen before we got married.
Muñóz: So, a lot of people at that time when they came from Mexico or somewhere else, they had to prepare themselves to become citizens?
Mrs.Auza: Before, when they brought those people here, they did not have any citizenship, but later on they did.
Muñóz: About what year would that be?
Mrs. Auza: Well, I do not remember Frank...
Mr. Auza: When they took them by train and let them out in the river, they made ____ with the branches.
Mrs.Auza: That was in Phoenix.
Muñóz: In Phoenix. The Mexicans. Ok, so you met people from Spain who came through Mexico not through New York. Did you meet people from other countries who came through New York, Mexico, Cuba o... or any other places?
Mrs. Auza: ____We just saw them when they came here.
Muñóz: I am going to ask you, were there criminals during that time?
Mrs. Auza: No, everybody was real good. You did not hear all that junk, the killings and all that.
Muñóz: No, nothing ah! Nothing. I have heard a story. Did you meet Mountain Joe? José Navarrez.
Mrs. Auza: Navarrez... yes, yes
Muñóz: Ok, I heard a story, from my mother, he killed his mute brother. Do you remember that story ?
Mrs. Auza: Yes, well, Mountain Joe, he used to come over here to bring this or that. He used drink.
Muñóz: How come he died is his brother’s hands?
Mrs. Auza: Well, I do not know what happened.
Muñóz: Did you hear the story Frank?
Mrs. Auza: When Mountain Joe killed his brother the mute.
Muñóz: How did that happen?
Mrs. Auza: Ah! I don’t know, he killed him in his house.
Muñóz: This question is about San Francisco street. The red light district. What do you remember of the red light district?
Mrs. Auza: Well I did not remember anything, I do not like to have that____ I do not care what the red light...
Muñóz: What about bootlegging time? Mrs. Auza: There was quite a few ___of bootlegging around in Flagstaff . That is the only way that they could get any liquor, and the Indians would buy a lot of times from...it was prohibited... the Indians could not buy it, I mean they could not drink, and you could not sell it to the Indians. But later they opened____and...
Munóz: So, would you say there was a lot of beer, made at home, domestic beer and stuff like this. What about rootbeer?
Mrs. Auza: A lot of root beer. I made some root beer. The kids liked it. And I made beer over there with Mr. Babbitt. And then , I remember that he went to Roma Linda and he said: Elzie, you do not have to make anymore beer because the doctor told me that this is making me sick and I said: good I do not have to make anymore beer for you.
Muñóz: Did you make beer Frank?
Mrs. Auza: Did you make? He never did. She is asking if you ever make beer?
Muñóz: You never made beer at home?
Mr. Auza: No, and I never drunk either.
Mrs. Auza: Do you know, that is why, the father of the ____ my father asked to ____, he said: what kind of guy he was? An I told him: he is a good guy, the best guy, he doesn’t drink, he only works. He said: if his daughter marries him she is very fortunate because he is a good guy. Everyone liked Frank [ conversation not clear].
Munóz: What kind of type of transportation did you have?
Mrs. Auza: Walking, we got a lot of walking, nobody had any cars.
Muñóz: Frank, how did you get around?
Mrs. Auza: Horses.
Muñóz: How many horses did you have Frank?
Mrs Auza: Two, he had one horse, I remember. When we got married he had one horse.
Mr. Auza: No, I had 30.
Muñóz: Horses?
Mrs. Auza: No, no, when you were single.
Mr. Auza: When I was single?
Mrs. Auza: I just had one.
Mr. Auza: Yes, one. White legs. I used to ride it down but then he had another one that he used to ride.
Mr. Auza: And they gave it to me because they couldn’t ______
Muñóz: Oh yes! Where? Did they give to you here in Flagstaff?
Mrs. Auza: He______ and... it was a beautiful horse.
Muñóz: And you stayed with hit?
Mrs.Auza: He gave it to you or what happened?
Muñóz: So you already gave me what did you used to do for work. Did your mother work?
Mrs. Auza: Just stayed home. Ok, so your father____
Muñóz: She worked at home for the family or to help the family?
Mrs. Auza: She just worked with the family.
Muñóz: Medicine, what doctors do you remember?
Mrs.Auza: Dr. Fronske. I always remember him.
Muñóz: What was Mr. Fronske’s son’s name? Bob, Bob Fronske. Mrs. Auza: Yes, Bob Fronske. That was a photographer, that was the only one that I remember having. Fronske Studio.
Muñóz: Do you remember about doctors? Did you have to call any?
Mrs. Auza: Dr. Fronke is the only one that he ever had.
Muñóz: And his mom and his brothers and sisters?
Mrs. Auza: Oh! I do not even know if he had to go to the doctor when...
Muñóz: Do you remember when you were younger? When you guys got sick did you have to call doctors? Which doctor was here during that time?
Mr. Auza: ______, Dr. Raymond.
Mrs. Auza: Dr. Fronske.
Muñóz: Did they come to your house when you were sick?
Mrs. Auza: I remember when I was back there in the kitchen, Dr. Fronske came to give shots to the kids ___after they got it.
Muñóz: Ok, deliveries. When women had to deliver. That was at home right?
Mrs. Auza: Dr. Fronske, and they later on Dr. _____.
Muñóz: So all your kids were born at the hospital?
Mrs. Auza: Joe and Francis and Franky and ___ were born at home. And then Dr. Fronske said that he could not, he was getting too old and he could not come to the house so I had to go to the hospital. I went to Dr. ____. And then for the first time Johnny was at the hospital. And do you know Anderson here?
Muñóz: Yes.
Mrs.Auza: His girl was born, ah...._____was born at the hospital at the same time.
Munóz: How about curanderas?
Mrs. Auza: Yes, Cuca, that is why my aunt died. Because they had her. And the mother of ____. Also, at the same time. Those two ladies died and they blamed the curandera.
Munóz: And what did they get treated for?
Mrs. Auza: For child.
Muñóz: Oh child birth?
Mrs. Auza: They were mid wives.
Muñóz: Ok.
Mrs. Auza: That is why. My cousin, she had the baby and then after birth se fué and they could not get her. That lady could not get her down. So they got the doctor over there and _____. I think she was ____to dead. She just bled to dead. At the same time Mary’s mother died. That was from child birth.
Munóz: So, those were the only times you remember curanderas ah?
Mrs. Auza: Those were the only times I remember because my mother was right there in my aunt’s house. My aunt was screaming, she wanted some blood, I do not know. _____. It was too late to have the curanderas. My mother told my aunt: why you do not go to the doctor. Dr. Fronske is a good doctor. No, because she wanted to see a lady, she did not want a man. So that is what happened.
Munóz: Folklore, do you remember some folklore,...la llorana"?
Mrs.Auza: No, no I do not remember.
Muñóz: You do not remember any stories of that or anything? So you did not pay attention of any of that? Mrs. Auza: No I did not much attention.
Muñóz: Do you remember your parents or your mom saying, you are going to get the...Cucui"? Do you remember?
Mrs. Auza: They said that but I never saw it.
Muñóz: And I think that is about. We have never seen it. They just told us. Yes, that is what I have for you. I was going to ask Mr. Auza what types of food did they eat out in the... you can tell me.
Mrs. Auza: They had white rice with raisins and they had lamb. You know thay killed the lamb.
Muñóz: Oh that would be out in the ranch?
Mrs. Auza: In the ranch... I went to the ranch with the ___for 15 years every summer. I went with the kids when they were little.
Muñóz: So, would you cook most of the time or did you have a cook?
Mrs.Auza: I cooked all the time at the ranch.
Muñóz: So, you made your bread over there too?
Mrs. Auza: That is the only way, they were not going to go to the bakery everyday.
You had to make biscuits or you had to make bread. If someone came you had to have bread. And I always managed to have bread.
Muñóz: What kind of life can you tell me you had as a borreguero- shepherd? Was it sad, too much work, no time to have fun...
Mrs. Auza: No, he did not have fun. He was working all day. When he wanted, he came from the hill in his motorcycle. He hurt himself once in the motorcycle.
Muñóz: He came on a motorcycle ?
Mrs. Auza: He had a motorcycle, I do not know where the hell did he get that motorcycle from. Where did you get that motorcycle from? Whose motorcycle was that?
Mr. Auza: Domingo.
Mrs. Auza: Domingo? Where was he?
Mr. Auza: California.
Mrs. Auza: That’s the one who gave you the motorcycle? Well, anyway, he used to come in the motorcycle. Or he took some friends’ truck, he paid them, ____ he used to pay on the way and they would come and take him home.
Muñóz: I was going to ____
Mr. Auza. What majority, what nationalities were your sheepherders? What majority?
Mrs Auza: They were Mexican, from New Mexico.
Muñóz: Did they have a contract?
Mrs.Auza: No, they just came to work. He always had plenty of men to work.. People from Spain for shepherds and Mexican for cooks. They were good cooks.
Muñóz: Los Mexican?
Mrs. Auza: Yes, yes.
Mr. Auza: People from here worked ¬¬¬____.
Muñóz: People from here?
Mrs. Auza: Many of them came from New Mexico, to work here with the sheep.
Mr. Auza: Even Mormons?
Muñóz: Ok, they came to all over Arizona to work here? Mr. Auza: Yes there were patron Mormons too.
Muñóz: How many patrons, shepherds were here when you had the sheep?
Mr. Auza: Oh there were a lot! Most of them from Spain, Mexico.
Muñóz: Well, these are all the questions, thank you very much.